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info file?

info file?

From:
Joe Corneli
Date:
2013-10-15 @ 18:46
Hello:

Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.

Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.

Joe

Re: [conkeror] info file?

From:
John J. Foerch
Date:
2013-10-17 @ 18:38
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 07:46:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> Hello:
> 
> Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
> feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
> one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
> but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.
> 
> Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.
> 
> Joe

Hi Joe,

Glad to hear of your enthusiasm for learning Conkeror.  I don't think that
we should add info documentation, though, because having a second set of
documentation would significantly add to the work of updating the docs
whenever the program changed.  Our wiki docs have the two significant
advantages of being community-editable and readable from within Conkeror
itself.  Info docs have an added installation complexity (we don't assume
all users install Conkeror from a package manager), and also require a
separate reader application.  Info format is popular with the emacs crowd,
but doesn't seem to be widely adopted outside of that community, and
Conkeror's target audience is by no means exclusively the emacs
community.  So, for those reasons, I don't think that info format is a
good way to go for Conkeror's documentation.

-- 
John Foerch

Re: [conkeror] info file?

From:
Joe Corneli
Date:
2013-10-21 @ 16:27
Hi John:

One solution would be to automate conversion from the wiki
documentation into .info format, using the wiki as the "master
version".  I've been doing something similar using Pandoc (converting
an "upstream" Wordpress website into LaTeX format to turn it into a
print book).  Pandoc also exports in texinfo format, so I think the
format shifting part would be relatively easy.  Stylistically, the
only thing the Conkeror wiki is critically missing (AFAICT) is a
Command Index.

It's possible that some minor structural changes would be required to
get it to convert nicely (which I could put into the conversion
"pipeline" if people prefer), but the basic thought is that, if we
were to go this route, the .info file would be a strict "value add"
for people who DO use Emacs/Info.  Making it would provide a sort of
completeness/quality check on the wiki information.

In the end, if I can fully automate the export, then there won't be an
additional workflow for others.  If by chance there's a snapshot of
the wiki source around, that might make it easy for me to make some
initial experiments.

Joe

On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:38 PM, John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 07:46:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
>> feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
>> one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
>> but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.
>>
>> Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.
>>
>> Joe
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> Glad to hear of your enthusiasm for learning Conkeror.  I don't think that
> we should add info documentation, though, because having a second set of
> documentation would significantly add to the work of updating the docs
> whenever the program changed.  Our wiki docs have the two significant
> advantages of being community-editable and readable from within Conkeror
> itself.  Info docs have an added installation complexity (we don't assume
> all users install Conkeror from a package manager), and also require a
> separate reader application.  Info format is popular with the emacs crowd,
> but doesn't seem to be widely adopted outside of that community, and
> Conkeror's target audience is by no means exclusively the emacs
> community.  So, for those reasons, I don't think that info format is a
> good way to go for Conkeror's documentation.
>
> --
> John Foerch

Re: [conkeror] info file?

From:
John J. Foerch
Date:
2013-10-24 @ 16:59
That sounds reasonable to me.  I don't think moin has a function that
would get you a tarball of all page sources, so you would need to write a
web service that does that part.  (Tarball of all page sources is the best
way to go, so as to not abuse bandwidth.)  A python cgi program will
probably work best, because moin is written in python, and has a python
api that you can use.  I recommend setting up a moin wiki on your own
computer for development of your script.

John

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 05:27:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> Hi John:
> 
> One solution would be to automate conversion from the wiki
> documentation into .info format, using the wiki as the "master
> version".  I've been doing something similar using Pandoc (converting
> an "upstream" Wordpress website into LaTeX format to turn it into a
> print book).  Pandoc also exports in texinfo format, so I think the
> format shifting part would be relatively easy.  Stylistically, the
> only thing the Conkeror wiki is critically missing (AFAICT) is a
> Command Index.
> 
> It's possible that some minor structural changes would be required to
> get it to convert nicely (which I could put into the conversion
> "pipeline" if people prefer), but the basic thought is that, if we
> were to go this route, the .info file would be a strict "value add"
> for people who DO use Emacs/Info.  Making it would provide a sort of
> completeness/quality check on the wiki information.
> 
> In the end, if I can fully automate the export, then there won't be an
> additional workflow for others.  If by chance there's a snapshot of
> the wiki source around, that might make it easy for me to make some
> initial experiments.
> 
> Joe
> 
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:38 PM, John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 07:46:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> >> Hello:
> >>
> >> Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
> >> feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
> >> one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
> >> but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.
> >>
> >> Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >
> > Hi Joe,
> >
> > Glad to hear of your enthusiasm for learning Conkeror.  I don't think that
> > we should add info documentation, though, because having a second set of
> > documentation would significantly add to the work of updating the docs
> > whenever the program changed.  Our wiki docs have the two significant
> > advantages of being community-editable and readable from within Conkeror
> > itself.  Info docs have an added installation complexity (we don't assume
> > all users install Conkeror from a package manager), and also require a
> > separate reader application.  Info format is popular with the emacs crowd,
> > but doesn't seem to be widely adopted outside of that community, and
> > Conkeror's target audience is by no means exclusively the emacs
> > community.  So, for those reasons, I don't think that info format is a
> > good way to go for Conkeror's documentation.
> >
> > --
> > John Foerch

Re: [conkeror] info file?

From:
Joe Corneli
Date:
2013-10-24 @ 17:34
I downloaded the latest version from
http://static.moinmo.in/files/moin-1.9.7.tar.gz and it comes with:

  ~/moin-1.9.7/MoinMoin/script/export/package.py

"This tool allows you to create a package of certain wiki pages."

I tested it locally, and produced a zip file containing the most
recent copies of all of the pages on my test wiki:

$ moin --config-dir=/home/jac2349/moin-1.9.7/
--wiki-url=http://localhost:8081/ export package --output ~/mywiki.zip

So that should do for producing a tarball - if you can post one, I'll
take it from there and see what I can come up with!

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:59 PM, John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> That sounds reasonable to me.  I don't think moin has a function that
> would get you a tarball of all page sources, so you would need to write a
> web service that does that part.  (Tarball of all page sources is the best
> way to go, so as to not abuse bandwidth.)  A python cgi program will
> probably work best, because moin is written in python, and has a python
> api that you can use.  I recommend setting up a moin wiki on your own
> computer for development of your script.
>
> John
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 05:27:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
>> Hi John:
>>
>> One solution would be to automate conversion from the wiki
>> documentation into .info format, using the wiki as the "master
>> version".  I've been doing something similar using Pandoc (converting
>> an "upstream" Wordpress website into LaTeX format to turn it into a
>> print book).  Pandoc also exports in texinfo format, so I think the
>> format shifting part would be relatively easy.  Stylistically, the
>> only thing the Conkeror wiki is critically missing (AFAICT) is a
>> Command Index.
>>
>> It's possible that some minor structural changes would be required to
>> get it to convert nicely (which I could put into the conversion
>> "pipeline" if people prefer), but the basic thought is that, if we
>> were to go this route, the .info file would be a strict "value add"
>> for people who DO use Emacs/Info.  Making it would provide a sort of
>> completeness/quality check on the wiki information.
>>
>> In the end, if I can fully automate the export, then there won't be an
>> additional workflow for others.  If by chance there's a snapshot of
>> the wiki source around, that might make it easy for me to make some
>> initial experiments.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:38 PM, John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 07:46:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
>> >> Hello:
>> >>
>> >> Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
>> >> feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
>> >> one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
>> >> but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.
>> >>
>> >> Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Joe
>> >
>> > Hi Joe,
>> >
>> > Glad to hear of your enthusiasm for learning Conkeror.  I don't think that
>> > we should add info documentation, though, because having a second set of
>> > documentation would significantly add to the work of updating the docs
>> > whenever the program changed.  Our wiki docs have the two significant
>> > advantages of being community-editable and readable from within Conkeror
>> > itself.  Info docs have an added installation complexity (we don't assume
>> > all users install Conkeror from a package manager), and also require a
>> > separate reader application.  Info format is popular with the emacs crowd,
>> > but doesn't seem to be widely adopted outside of that community, and
>> > Conkeror's target audience is by no means exclusively the emacs
>> > community.  So, for those reasons, I don't think that info format is a
>> > good way to go for Conkeror's documentation.
>> >
>> > --
>> > John Foerch

Re: [conkeror] info file?

From:
John J. Foerch
Date:
2013-10-24 @ 17:46
Okay, nice.  I'll followup when I get a chance to set that up.

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 06:34:48PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> I downloaded the latest version from
> http://static.moinmo.in/files/moin-1.9.7.tar.gz and it comes with:
> 
>   ~/moin-1.9.7/MoinMoin/script/export/package.py
> 
> "This tool allows you to create a package of certain wiki pages."
> 
> I tested it locally, and produced a zip file containing the most
> recent copies of all of the pages on my test wiki:
> 
> $ moin --config-dir=/home/jac2349/moin-1.9.7/
> --wiki-url=http://localhost:8081/ export package --output ~/mywiki.zip
> 
> So that should do for producing a tarball - if you can post one, I'll
> take it from there and see what I can come up with!
> 
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:59 PM, John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > That sounds reasonable to me.  I don't think moin has a function that
> > would get you a tarball of all page sources, so you would need to write a
> > web service that does that part.  (Tarball of all page sources is the best
> > way to go, so as to not abuse bandwidth.)  A python cgi program will
> > probably work best, because moin is written in python, and has a python
> > api that you can use.  I recommend setting up a moin wiki on your own
> > computer for development of your script.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 05:27:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> >> Hi John:
> >>
> >> One solution would be to automate conversion from the wiki
> >> documentation into .info format, using the wiki as the "master
> >> version".  I've been doing something similar using Pandoc (converting
> >> an "upstream" Wordpress website into LaTeX format to turn it into a
> >> print book).  Pandoc also exports in texinfo format, so I think the
> >> format shifting part would be relatively easy.  Stylistically, the
> >> only thing the Conkeror wiki is critically missing (AFAICT) is a
> >> Command Index.
> >>
> >> It's possible that some minor structural changes would be required to
> >> get it to convert nicely (which I could put into the conversion
> >> "pipeline" if people prefer), but the basic thought is that, if we
> >> were to go this route, the .info file would be a strict "value add"
> >> for people who DO use Emacs/Info.  Making it would provide a sort of
> >> completeness/quality check on the wiki information.
> >>
> >> In the end, if I can fully automate the export, then there won't be an
> >> additional workflow for others.  If by chance there's a snapshot of
> >> the wiki source around, that might make it easy for me to make some
> >> initial experiments.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:38 PM, John J. Foerch 
<jjfoerch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 07:46:46PM +0100, Joe Corneli wrote:
> >> >> Hello:
> >> >>
> >> >> Would there be interest from others in an Info file for Conkeror?  I
> >> >> feel like it might help me understand the program better to develop
> >> >> one.  There would be significant overlap with the content of the wiki,
> >> >> but some new things (I think), like a list of available commands.
> >> >>
> >> >> Feedback on the proposal would be welcome.
> >> >>
> >> >> Joe
> >> >
> >> > Hi Joe,
> >> >
> >> > Glad to hear of your enthusiasm for learning Conkeror.  I don't think that
> >> > we should add info documentation, though, because having a second set of
> >> > documentation would significantly add to the work of updating the docs
> >> > whenever the program changed.  Our wiki docs have the two significant
> >> > advantages of being community-editable and readable from within Conkeror
> >> > itself.  Info docs have an added installation complexity (we don't assume
> >> > all users install Conkeror from a package manager), and also require a
> >> > separate reader application.  Info format is popular with the emacs crowd,
> >> > but doesn't seem to be widely adopted outside of that community, and
> >> > Conkeror's target audience is by no means exclusively the emacs
> >> > community.  So, for those reasons, I don't think that info format is a
> >> > good way to go for Conkeror's documentation.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > John Foerch